This is part 2 of our exclusive interview with Neale Donald Walsch. In Part 1 of the interview we talked about Neale’s daily inspiration, about the path of the soul and self fulfillment. In case you have missed part 1 of the interview, please find it here.
In Part 2 we discuss the application of truth, what Love means to Neale and conscious versus unconscious living.
If you are inspired by reading this interview, we encourage you to read The Only Thing That Matters.
Soul Love: When talking about the elimination of life’s complexity, you write: “You possess Divine Power proportionate to your problems”. What do you mean by that?
NDW: Each day has problems of its own. I think that the master, known as Jesus, put it quite well. He said: “So don’t go around worrying what do we need to eat, what are we to drink, where with all shall we clothe ourselves? Each day has problems of its own. Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and all these things shall be added unto you”.
SL: How do you apply all this wisdom into your own day-to-day life? In your communication with other people? Is that purely through the connection with God or is there another way to apply that wisdom?
NDW: The application of the truth, the wisdom and the clarity that is available to us from the source of divinity that resides within each of us, is a matter of will. If we choose to live within the space of our divine nature, the choices and decisions we make in life, the actions we undertake, the words we speak, the energies that we transmit to others, the whole of our experience, we proceed from that place of divinity automatically, virtually without effort. Without anyone having to do anything in particular in order to achieve the expression that is desired. It is merely a matter of will, that is why it is important to choose divine will over human will. I mean that in the sense of Universal will rather than localized will. The will of the one, rather than the will of individuations of the one. The differences between those two are very clear to us, if we pay attention.
I find in my own life, all I have to do is listen to the still, small voice within, which is instructing me in every moment exactly what divinity at its highest expression would produce in my experience. If I ignore that voice or do not even choose to listen for it, then my life will not appear to contain applications of the wisdom that divinity has to offer. But if I am willing to listen for that voice, and then if I am willing to proceed according to its instructions or recommendations or perhaps the gentler word would be ‘guidance’, I will find that the application of divine wisdom is virtually automatic. That is – I do, I think, and I say things automatically, virtually without thinking. In a sense, I am bypassing the mind and proceeding directly from the agenda of the Soul. It’s impossible in the strictest sense of the words ‘bypass the mind’ but I speak in a language most humans will understand, in actuality the mind can not be bypassed, but it can be used in such a way that it focuses away from it’s limited database and focuses on the unlimited database of the soul.
When the mind is focused we find that the responses of our body to the messages from the soul gathered by the mind and brought to the body through the mind are virtually automatic. I will give you an example:
A man is walking down the street and sees a house on fire and a woman is in the top story window holding her little baby crying for help. If the man walking by the building listens to his mind, he will run the other way. He may in fact, if he’s thinking clearly, call the fire department and maybe call an ambulance, but because the mind thinks that it must guard the survival of the body, since the mind believes that the fundamental instinct is survival, the man will not run into the burning building. The only way that he could ever choose to run into the burning building is if his mind sidestepped the data he is holding about survival and focused in stead on the internal wisdom of the soul. The survival of the individual soul is now guaranteed. Both now and even forever more. The soul knows this.
Therefore the man runs into the burning building and risks life and limb to save the mother and child. And he in fact does so and he comes out of the building with both. And when the newspapers ask him later how he could do such a heroic thing he says he did it without thinking, which is precisely right, that is exactly how he did it, without thinking because he expressed in that moment what is the true, fundamental, basic instinct, not survival but the expression of divinity.
SL: What does Love mean to you?
NDW: To me, love means the total releasing of any thought that I am in any way separate for another and therefore must serve my own desires what I imagine to be my own needs and requirements. Protect myself from what I imagine to be my own dangers and gather for myself what I assume to be, that which I need. Love to me is the complete abrogation of the self, the loss of the self, utterly and totally and completely.
Any other single person or any other group of people or of humanity as a whole and ultimately of everything in life that a person who loses their sense of individual identity, completely loves even every blade of grass, cannot pick a flower without first asking it’s silent permission, curses nothing, blesses everything and gives the whole of its arsenal of tools to the creation of the experience of divinity in every other person with whom it is at any time in life engaged.
Put on a personal and specific level, when I say I love my wife, I literally forget that I am in the room. I think I want for you what you want for you, nothing more and nothing less. I assume the point of view that she holds, embrace the feelings that I feel coming from her and become united with her in every way. And my choices, actions and decisions, the words I speak, the things I do, the ways we interact are based on my clear and present understanding that I, in the singular and local sense, am not even not part of the process. But there is only one of us, who I identify with at that moment as my beloved other.
In real life my wife wears a ring on the third finger of her left hand that contains the word OTHER. I wear the identical ring.
When we say ‘each other’ we said “You are my other.” In that moment we understood completely that the singular expression of life that we called Neale and Em, no longer existed as a matter of fact, but there was only the ‘other hood’, that is – the oneness. When we have that same experience not only with a singular person with whom we are romantically involved but all people and ultimately all of life, every tree, every flower, every bird, every animal, every fish, every blade of grass, every star in the heavens and when we ultimately have that same relationship with what we call God, we not only understand love, we have become it.
SL: When discussing to make a shift regarding everything that matters in our life, you mention ‘Gratitude’ as a helpful tool. You say “Gratitude is not merely an emotion, it’s a decision”. But how can we make a decision based on gratitude in a world with so much misery and suffering?
NDW: By choosing to be.
“There are those who are awake and there are those who are sleep walking. There are those who know and those who don’t know.”
I am recognizing that all things are being made manifest by all beings as a product of their own free will. The irony of the human experience is that the largest number of people do things that produce certain collective outcomes and then deny that they are at cause in the matter. They therefore label the conditions, circumstances and events of life as things that are happening to them, when in fact and in truth they are happening through them as a result of their collective consciousness, their collective choices, decisions and their collective actions across the span of time.
The challenge is for human beings to understand who they really are and the role that they are actually playing. In the larger process, that is – generating events and the circumstances and the conditions over which they would mourn and to which they would point as reasons to be sad rather than grateful. But the master, the soul that is spiritually awake – fully – would never be sad over anything but that soul may be determined and committed to altering or doing what he or she can to alter the circumstances, events and the conditions and the creations that are causing a great many other people to be sad because they don’t know they’re getting what they want. No one who gets what he or she wants can be sad when they receive it, unless they’re denying that they’re getting what they want and denying the very role they are playing in the receiving of it.
A person who smokes is getting what he wants, every time he lights up a cigarette. From the time he’s for example nineteen until he’s sixty-three, and every time he takes a cigarette and puts it in his mouth, he’s getting what he wants. For many of those years he is aware that it is not good for him, but he is going after what he wants anyway. Then, when he is diagnosed with lung cancer he denies his responsibility in the matter and imagines himself to be getting something that he doesn’t want. He could say “Well, I wanted a cigarette but I didn’t want cancer”. But if you know that one thing causes another then you must not only want the cause but you must also desire the effect, or you wouldn’t do it. You wouldn’t bang yourself on the head with a hammer if you know it’s going to give you a headache. Similarly, you wouldn’t take cigarettes and put them in your mouth and smoke them if you know they’re going to give you cancer. Well, it’s an illustration that may be simplistic but it applies to all of life.
Most human beings can tell you ahead of time the probable outcome of virtually every choice, thought, action and decision that merges from them. Therefore we see that in service of our desires we produce outcomes that we then deny having had any role in generating. This is the scenario into which unconscious beings enter. A person who is spiritually evolved would rarely if ever engage in such manifestations nor indulge such desires. If he did, at the very least, he would acknowledge his responsibility in the matter and not pretend to his own mind that he had nothing to do with the outcome. I’ve just described to you the difference between conscious and unconscious living and the difference between conscious and unconscious beings.
There are those who are awake and there are those who are sleep walking. There are those who know and those who don’t know – everything that I have just said.
The world is divided into categories of people:
– There are those who don’t know and who don’t know that they don’t know. They are innocent. Love them.
– There are those who don’t know, but they know that they don’t know. They are willing. Teach them.
– There are those who don’t know, but they think that they know. They are dangerous. Avoid them.
– Then there are those who know, but they don’t know that they know. They are asleep. Wake them.
– And there are those who know, but who pretend that they don’t know. They are actors. Enjoy them, but don’t get caught up in their dramas.
– And then there are those who know, and who know that they know. These are the candescente, those who know.
If they know, they would not have you follow them, because they know that you know, although you may not know that you know. They would rather simply remind you of who you really are, so do not follow them but listen very carefully to what they have to say, because they may just remind you of everything you already know.
SL: Very interesting Neale! About the people that you mentioned in the category who are ‘dangerous’, I would have thought that you would have said “Love them”, but you said “avoid them”.
NDW: Wait a minute, the statement you just made presumes that loving and avoiding are not possible at the same time. I didn’t say anything about not loving them. You can love a person and still avoid that person. Like “I love cherry pie” but I avoid it more often than not. So avoiding someone, staying out of their way and making sure that they are out of your way does not mean you don’t love them.
SL: That’s very clear Neale. Thank you for this clarification and I thank you for this beautiful interview.
For information, please visit the website: nealedonaldwalsch.com
INTERVIEW BY: DIRK TERPSTRA – SOUL LOVE FOUNDER
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